5-4
5-4 (pronounced "five to four") is a podcast that covers the U.S. Supreme Court from a critical, progressive perspective. The podcast's tagline describes it as being "about how much the Supreme Court sucks", and providing an "irreverent tour of all the ways in which the law is shaped by politics."[1] It was launched by Leon Neyfakh's Prologue Projects in partnership with the Westwood One Podcast Network.
| 5-4 | |
|---|---|
 The podcast artwork is based on the Supreme Court Building | |
| Presentation | |
| Hosted by | Rhiannon Hamam Michael Liroff Peter Shamshiri |
| Genre | Politics |
| Format | Audio |
| Narrated by | Leon Neyfakh |
| Language | English |
| Length | Approximately 40–60 minutes |
| Production | |
| Production | Prologue Projects |
| Theme music composed by | Spatial Relations |
| No. of episodes | 107 |
| Publication | |
| Original release | February 25, 2020 |
| Related | |
| Website | Official website |
Premise
The hosts are self-described advocates for legal realism.[2]
The first episode of the podcast was about Bush v. Gore.[3][4]
History
5-4 was launched in February 2020 by Leon Neyfakh's Prologue Projects in partnership with Westwood One Podcast Network (which has since been renamed Cumulus Podcast Network). Its hosts, Rhiannon, Peter, and Michael, maintain a semi-anonymous profiles as podcast hosts, disclosing only their first names and a "handful of biographical details" in any given episode.[5] Rihannon worked as a public defender in Austin, Texas; Peter previously served as in-house counsel for MetLife and was fired upon his employers finding out about his role on the podcast; Michael was a former associate at Sullivan & Cromwell, and self-described “reformed corporate lawyer.”[6][7][2]
Neyfakh's original advertising partnership with Westwood One failed to generate significant revenue for the podcast, so the decision was made to instead fund its production through Patreon. The following month, Nicholas Quah wrote in Vulture: "After its pivot to Patreon, 5-4 is now significantly better positioned for the next stage of its life, and its experience stands as a good example of the fact that a race for scale isn't the only way to run a shop in this business."[4]
Notable guests
Elected American politicians have been guests on the show. Sheldon Whitehouse, Senator of Rhode Island, appeared on the podcast in 2021.[8] Senator Elizabeth Warren, a "fan", was a guest in July 2022.[9] Representatives Ro Khanna and Mondaire Jones appeared in separate episodes, discussing court reform.[10][11]
Jamelle Bouie discussed the Democratic political strategy in July 2022.[12]
Alec Karakatsanis appeared, criticizing the U.S. legal system.[13]
Reception
Within a week of its launch in February 2021, the 5-4 Patreon had accumulated almost 3,000 paid subscribers, enough to generate roughly $200,000 in revenue each year.[4] As of July 2022, it earns $35,000 per month.[14] It is the 39th most popular podcast tracked by Graphtreon, and the 101st most popular Patreon project overall.[15] The podcast has typically been well-received, with the hosts' "funny, forceful" argumentation" and "enthusiastically acidic takes on the once-widely revered American legal institution" praised for making the law more accessible to its listeners and everyday people.[2][7] It particularly gained popularity in the summer of 2022, after the overturning of Roe v. Wade under Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization; the month of the Dobbs decision, the number of episode downloads increased 90% from the last year.[7][16]
Episodes
As of October 19, 2022, 5–4 has had the following episodes:[17][18]
2020
| No. | Title | Guest | Original release date | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | "Bush v. Gore" | None | February 25, 2020 | |
| 2 | "Citizens United v. FEC" | None | March 3, 2020 | |
| 3 | "Fisher v. University of Texas" | None | March 10, 2020 | |
| Includes discussion of Fisher I and Fisher II | ||||
| 4 | "Shelby County v. Holder" | None | March 17, 2020 | |
| 5 | "Terry v. Ohio" | None | March 24, 2020 | |
| 6 | "NFIB v. Sebelius" | None | March 31, 2020 | |
| 7 | "Trump v. Hawaii" | None | April 7, 2020 | |
| 8 | "Emergency Episode: RNC v. DNC" | None | April 8, 2020 | |
| 9 | "Castle Rock v. Gonzales" | None | April 14, 2020 | |
| 10 | "Kelo v. New London" | None | April 21, 2020 | |
| 11 | "DC v. Heller" | None | April 28, 2020 | |
| 12 | "The Biden Court" | None | May 5, 2020 | |
| Episode discusses the possible effects of the 2020 United States elections on the Supreme Court and how it might change under Joe Biden's presidency | ||||
| 13 | "Clapper v. Amnesty International" | None | May 12, 2020 | |
| 14 | "Tison v. Arizona" | None | May 19, 2020 | |
| 15 | "Buck v. Bell" | None | May 26, 2020 | |
| 16 | "Burwell v. Hobby Lobby" | None | June 2, 2020 | |
| 17 | "Hernandez v. Mesa" | Steven Vladeck | June 9, 2020 | |
| 18 | "Bostock v. Clayton County, Georgia" | None | June 16, 2020 | |
| 19 | "Exxon Shipping v. Baker" | None | June 17, 2020 | |
| 20 | "Qualified Immunity" | None | June 23, 2020 | |
| 21 | "Janus v. AFSCME" | None | June 30, 2020 | |
| 22 | "Buckley v. Valeo" | None | July 7, 2020 | |
| 23 | "Epic Systems v. Lewis" | None | July 14, 2020 | |
| 24 | "Bennis v. Michigan" | None | July 21, 2020 | |
| 25 | "Term Recap: 2019–2020" | None | August 4, 2020 | |
| 26 | "Milliken v. Bradley" | Leon Neyfakh | August 11, 2020 | |
| 27 | "Boy Scouts of America v. Dale" | None | August 18, 2020 | |
| 28 | "Nielsen v. Preap" | None | August 25, 2020 | |
| 29 | "Flood v. Kuhn" | Adam | September 1, 2020 | |
| 30 | "Voting Rights" | None | September 8, 2020 | |
| 31 | "LA v. Lyons" | None | September 15, 2020 | |
| 32 | "What RBG Didn't Understand" | None | September 21, 2020 | |
| Discusses Ruth Bader Ginsburg's decision to not retire under Obama | ||||
| 33 | "Amy Coney Barrett is a Right Wing Freak" | None | September 29, 2020 | |
| 34 | "'What if Trump Dies?' And Other Questions" | None | October 6, 2020 | |
| 35 | "The Electoral College Coup is Coming" | None | October 13, 2020 | |
| 36 | "Rucho v. Common Cause" | None | October 20, 2020 | |
| 37 | "How to Fix the Court feat. Rep. Ro Khanna" | Ro Khanna | October 27, 2020 | |
| TBA | "Reliving Bush v. Gore" | None | November 3, 2020 | |
| The episode on Bush v. Gore is replayed after an introduction discussing cases about the 2020 US election. | ||||
| 38 | "The Courts Can't Save Him" | None | November 10, 2020 | |
| 39 | "Arizona Free Enterprise v. Bennett" | None | November 17, 2020 | |
| 40 | "Ashcroft v. Iqbal" | None | December 1, 2020 | |
| 41 | "Roman Catholic Diocese v. Cuomo" | None | December 8, 2020 | |
| 42 | "Herrera v. Collins" | None | December 15, 2020 | |
| 43 | "5–4 x Know Your Enemy" | Know Your Enemy | December 29, 2020 | |
| This crossover episode with Know Your Enemy discusses the conservative legal movement. | ||||
2021
| No. | Title | Guest | Original release date | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 44 | "The Rise and Fall of Roe v. Wade, Pt. 1" | None | January 12, 2021 | |
| 45 | "The Rise and Fall of Roe v. Wade, Pt. 2" | None | January 19, 2021 | |
| Discusses Planned Parenthood v. Casey | ||||
| 46 | "Morse v. Frederick" | None | January 26, 2021 | |
| 47 | "Navarette v. California" | None | February 2, 2021 | |
| 48 | "US v. Morrison" | None | February 9, 2021 | |
| 49 | "Atkins v. Virginia" | None | February 16, 2021 | |
| 50 | "McCleskey v. Kemp ft. Josie Duffy Rice" | Josie Duffy Rice | February 23, 2021 | |
| TBA | "Antonin Scalia [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | March 2, 2021 | |
| 51 | "San Antonio ISD v. Rodriguez ft. Alec Karakatsanis" | Alec Karakatsanis | March 9, 2021 | |
| 52 | "Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Kentucky Inc. v. Williams" | None | March 16, 2021 | |
| TBA | "The Worst of the Worst: The Trump Judges [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | March 23, 2021 | |
| 53 | "Connick v. Thompson" | None | March 30, 2021 | |
| 54 | "5–4 x Even More News" | Katy Stoll, Cody Johnson | April 6, 2021 | |
| This crossover episode discusses recent voting rights cases and the For the People Act. | ||||
| 55 | "Hoffman Plastic Compounds, Inc. v. National Labor Relations Board" | None | April 13, 2021 | |
| TBA | "The Insular Cases [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | April 20, 2021 | |
| 56 | "Bowles v. Russell" | Josie Duffy Rice, Jay Willis | April 27, 2021 | |
| 57 | "Get Us to Seven feat. Rep. Mondaire Jones" | Mondaire Jones | May 4, 2021 | |
| Discussion includes the Judiciary Act of 2021, Supreme Court reform, and the Biden Commission | ||||
| TBA | "Roe v. Wade: The Movie [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | May 11, 2021 | |
| 58 | "Jones v. Mississippi" | None | May 18, 2021 | |
| 58 | "Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. v. Dukes" | None | May 25, 2021 | |
| TBA | "Brett Kavanaugh [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | June 1, 2021 | |
| 60 | "5–4 x Even More News — Abortion Rights" | Even More News | June 8, 2021 | |
| Discusses the implications for abortion rights in the US after the Supreme Court granted certiorari to hear Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization | ||||
| 61 | "Smith v. Maryland" | Even More News | June 15, 2021 | |
| 62 | "Meet Nick Wallace" | Nick Wallace | June 21, 2021 | |
| 63 | "Fulton v. Philadelphia" | None | June 29, 2021 | |
| TBA | "Textualism [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | June 29, 2021 | |
| 64 | "Cedar Point Nursery v. Hassid" | None | July 6, 2021 | |
| TBA | "Why Supreme Court Media Coverage Sucks [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | July 27, 2021 | |
| 65 | "Brnovich v. Democratic National Committee" | None | August 3, 2021 | |
| 66 | "American for Prosperity v. Bonta" | None | August 10, 2021 | |
| TBA | "Stephen Breyer [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | August 17, 2021 | |
| 67 | "Nestlé v. Doe" | None | August 24, 2021 | |
| 68 | "Welcome to Law School" | None | August 31, 2021 | |
| 69 | "SB8: Whole Woman's Health v. Jackson" | None | September 3, 2021 | |
| TBA | "Eviction Moratorium: A Perfect Storm of Conservative Bullshit [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | September 14, 2021 | |
| 70 | "Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl" | None | September 21, 2021 | |
| 71 | "Nieves v. Bartlett" | None | October 5, 2021 | |
| 72 | "2021–2022 Supreme Court Term Preview" | Elie Mystal | October 5, 2021 | |
| TBA | "The Justices are Getting Defensive [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | October 19, 2021 | |
| 73 | "Younger v. Harris" | None | October 26, 2021 | |
| 74 | "Hamdi v. Rumsfeld" | None | November 2, 2021 | |
| 75 | "'This Is A Captured Institution' – An Interview with Senator Sheldon Whitehouse" | Sheldon Whitehouse | November 9, 2021 | |
| 76 | "Michigan v. Environmental Protection Agency" | None | November 16, 2021 | |
| TBA | "The Failed Nomination of Robert Bork [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | November 23, 2021 | |
| 77 | "Town of Greece v. Galloway" | None | November 16, 2021 | |
| TBA | "The Warren Court: 5 Out of 5 Stars [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | December 14, 2021 | |
| 78 | "The 5–4 Giving Guide: How to Help" | None | December 24, 2021 | |
2022
| No. | Title | Guest | Original release date | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| TBA | "The Return of the Rise and Fall of Roe v. Wade, Pt. 1" | None | January 4, 2022 | |
| Rerun of "Rise and Fall of Roe v. Wade, Pt. 1" | ||||
| TBA | "The Return of the Rise and Fall of Roe v. Wade, Pt. 2" | None | January 4, 2022 | |
| Rerun of "Rise and Fall of Roe v. Wade, Pt. 2" | ||||
| 79 | "Florida v. Riley" | None | January 18, 2022 | |
| 80 | "NFIB v. Department of Labor" | None | January 18, 2022 | |
| TBA | "The Best Amendment (The Ninth) [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | February 1, 2022 | |
| 81 | "Parents Involved in Community Schools v. Seattle School District No. 1" | None | February 8, 2022 | |
| 82 | "Ingraham v. Wright" | None | February 15, 2022 | |
| TBA | "The Lochner Era [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | February 22, 2022 | |
| 83 | "Merrill v. Milligan" | None | March 1, 2022 | |
| 84 | "We Need to Talk About Ginni" | None | March 8, 2022 | |
| TBA | "The Civil Rights Cases of 1883 [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | March 15, 2022 | |
| 85 | "Strickland v. Washington" | None | March 22, 2022 | |
| 86 | "Lorillard Tobacco Co. v. Reilly" | None | March 29, 2022 | |
| TBA | "How the Biden SCOTUS Commission Radicalized One Law Professor [PATREON-ONLY]" | Kermit Roosevelt III | April 12, 2022 | |
| 87 | "Immigration and Naturalization Service v. Elias-Zacarias" | None | April 19, 2022 | |
| 88 | "Lassiter v. Department of Social Services" | None | April 26, 2022 | |
| 89 | "Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health: The End of Roe" | None | May 4, 2022 | |
| TBA | "5–4 Live in Oakland [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | May 10, 2022 | |
| 90 | "United States v. Vaello Madero" | None | May 17, 2022 | |
| 91 | "Whren v. United States" | None | May 24, 2022 | |
| 92 | "Brett Kavanaugh – Unlocked Premium Episode" | None | May 31, 2022 | |
| 93 | "Federal Election Commission v. Ted Cruz for Senate" | None | June 7, 2022 | |
| TBA | "5–4 x Know Your Enemy: 'Overturning Roe, Part One'" | None | June 14, 2022 | |
| 94 | "Egbert v. Boule" | None | June 21, 2022 | |
| 95 | "Emergency Episode: Roe is Overturned" | None | June 25, 2022 | |
| Discusses Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization. | ||||
| 96 | "Shinn v. Ramirez" | None | June 28, 2022 | |
| 97 | "Kennedy v. Bremerton School District" | None | July 12, 2022 | |
| 98 | "West Virginia v. Environmental Protection Agency" | None | July 19, 2022 | |
| 99 | "WTF Are The Dems Doing? with Jamelle Bouie" | Jamelle Bouie | July 26, 2022 | |
| 100 | "'We can make Roe the law everywhere' – An Interview with Senator Elizabeth Warren" | Elizabeth Warren | July 28, 2022 | |
| TBA | "Free Speech, Cancel Culture, and the Court [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | August 2, 2022 | |
| 101 | "Oklahoma v. Castro-Huerta" | None | August 9, 2022 | |
| 102 | "New York State Rifle and Pistol Association v. Bruen" | None | August 9, 2022 | |
| TBA | "Harriet Miers Gets Wrecked [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | August 23, 2022 | |
| 103 | "Welcome to Law School (Again)" | None | August 30, 2022 | |
| Encore of episode 68. | ||||
| 104 | "Vega v. Tekoh" | None | September 13, 2022 | |
| 105 | "Minor v. Happersett" | None | September 20, 2022 | |
| TBA | "Ketanji Brown Jackson [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | September 27, 2022 | |
| 106 | "2022-2023 Supreme Court Term Preview" | Hannah Mullen | October 4, 2022 | |
| 107 | "Tanner v. United States" | None | October 11, 2022 | |
| 108 | "Legal Discourse and Our Discontents [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | October 18, 2022 | |
| 109 | "Rhiannon Resigned and Peter Got Fired [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | October 21, 2022 | |
| 110 | "Rhiannon Resigned and Peter Got Fired [PATREON-ONLY]" | None | October 21, 2022 | |
| 111 | "Independent State Legislature Theory" | None | October 25, 2022 | |
| 112 | "Bowers v. Hardwick" | None | November 1, 2022 | |
References
- "Five Four Pod". www.fivefourpod.com. Retrieved January 12, 2023.
- "The Leftist Lawyers Who Think the Supreme Court Sucks". The New Yorker. September 17, 2021. Retrieved January 12, 2023.
- "Supreme Court is Leon Neyfakh's Latest Target In 5-4 Podcast". Inside Radio. February 26, 2020. Archived from the original on July 25, 2022. Retrieved July 25, 2022.
- Quah, Nicholas (March 16, 2021). "Yes, Podcast Listenership Is Still on the Rise". Vulture. Archived from the original on July 25, 2022. Retrieved July 25, 2022.
- Barasch, Alex (September 17, 2021). "The Leftist Lawyers Who Think the Supreme Court Sucks". The New Yorker. Archived from the original on July 25, 2022. Retrieved July 25, 2022.
- Lampen, Claire (January 25, 2021). "The Prison Abolitionist Redefining What It Means to Win". The Cut. Retrieved January 12, 2023.
- Quah, Nicholas (October 20, 2022). "When a Supreme Court Podcast Gets You Fired". Vulture. Retrieved January 12, 2023.
- "Five Four Pod | 'This Is A Captured Institution' - An Interview with Senator Sheldon Whitehouse". www.fivefourpod.com. Retrieved January 12, 2023.
- Ugwu, Reggie (July 25, 2022). "The Hosts of '5–4' Never Trusted the Supreme Court". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Archived from the original on September 6, 2022. Retrieved July 25, 2022.
- "Get Us to Seven feat. Rep. Mondaire Jones". Archived from the original on September 6, 2022. Retrieved July 26, 2022.
- "5-4". Five Four Pod. Archived from the original on September 6, 2022. Retrieved July 26, 2022.
- "5-4: WTF Are The Dems Doing? with Jamelle Bouie on Apple Podcasts". Apple Podcasts. Archived from the original on July 26, 2022. Retrieved July 26, 2022.
- "San Antonio ISD v. Rodriguez ft. Alec Karakatsanis". Five Four Pod. Archived from the original on September 28, 2021. Retrieved July 26, 2022.
- "5-4 Podcast is creating a podcast". Patreon. Archived from the original on July 26, 2022. Retrieved July 26, 2022.
- "5-4 Podcast: Patreon Earnings + Statistics + Graphs + Rank". Graphtreon. Archived from the original on December 27, 2021. Retrieved July 26, 2022.
- Ugwu, Reggie (July 25, 2022). "The Hosts of '5-4' Never Trusted the Supreme Court". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved January 12, 2023.
- "5-4 on Apple Podcasts". Apple Podcasts. Archived from the original on July 25, 2022. Retrieved July 25, 2022.
- "5-4". Five Four Pod. Archived from the original on July 25, 2022. Retrieved July 25, 2022.